Join us! It’s our overview of Apple TV’s Foundation Season 2 in the penultimate episode of Stars End’s Fourth Season!
There’s still so much we don’t know! Will Demerzel hunt down and kill Dawn, Sereth, and the baby? Who gave Hari a living body and why? Will Tellum emerge from the Aether to become the Mule? Did anybody remember to erase all the incest in C-17’s brain when they woke up his pickle? Is the Prime Radiant becoming sentient? Just how many Hari’s are there in a conspiracy, anyway? And where the hell is Dors, damnit!?!
There’s more! And we talk about it all! Well, most of it. Uh… some! Some! No! A bit. A bit. We did do the nose! And the hat!
We also open the Stars End Mail Bag and answer some of your questions!
You’ll want to stick around for the end of this one so you can learn how to help us choose the winners of the Second Semi-Semi Septennial Hari Awards!
What a wild ride that was! This time we’re talking about the season finale of AppleTV+’s Foundation, “Creation Myths!” Haven’t seen it? Go! Watch it! Now! We’ll be here when you’re done!
Then you can join us for the excitement! Not everybody gets out of this one alive! There are beginnings and endings, twists and turns, conclusions and preludes! Everything a great finale needs!
And don’t go away after this episode! Foundation season two might have concluded but we still have two more episodes to go in our season 4!
In one week we’ll have an overview of what might be called the best season of Foundation so far! And we’ll open up the Stars End Mail Bag as Dave Letterman might have said.
Then, two weeks after that it’s the Second Not Actually Annual Hari Awards for Foundational Excellence! Be on the lookout for the polls, these are your awards as well as ours.
Hmmm… “not actually annual” needs a bit of work. “Sesquiennial” is once every year and a half. Too frequent. “Biennial” means once every two years. Not frequent enough. What’s once every twenty-one months? 21 months x 4 = 84 months which is Seven Years, So, how about Semi-Semi-Septennial? That will have to do.
But never mind that right now! You want to hear about the Season Finale! I know you do! Let’s go!
Here we go again. Joseph’s takes, thoughts, and theories from watching the episode. Simultaneously published at StarsEndPodcast.com.
Watching Foundation S2E09
Trantor. Nicely labeled so we don’t have to guess. 610 years ago.
I’m not crazy about the whole fairytale motif, and I suppose the counting faces thing is supposed to be charming. [Or a sign of autism as was pointed out on the podcast.]
Now that I’m thinking about it, that is a very well-labeled secret door.
The images of Demerzel in… let’s call it “lunchmeat mode” look very cool. But it raises a lot of questions. How does that work? How can she still be active? I know… Clarke’s third law blah blah blah.
Also, it’s odd that anyone would include a recurring slicing motif in a prison cell, but there it is. The whole thing makes me think of integral calculus.
“Demerzel’ s first words to Cleon 1 were “Will you set me free?”
We montage through time and get caught. We get, “It is a woman’s name because that is how I appear now.” So it’s a desktop theme. Check. Also “it’s not my first name.” We know.
When Cleon is a young emperor we get some back story. Demerzel was a leader of troops. Taken captive and brought before Emperor Aburanis. Experimentation and sadism ensue. Aburanis is an asshole which is just what you’d expect from someone whose name is a portmanteau of “aberrant anus.” It’s weird that Demerzel would see Cleon as being different. Flattery?
It’s easy to see C-1 as selfish and Demerzel as manipulative. Eventually, he professes his love, asks Demerzel to be his partner, and enslaves her while intimating that it sets her free. Relationship politics in a nutshell.
Then, “After me, when the half-men rule, they will be our children.”
“How I wish I asked you before I made it compulsory.” Then remove the device, asshole. It would be like when Bel Channis freed Han Pritcher from the Mule’s control.
“What the Mule realized in that same tiny space of time was that the emotional potential of Channis’ brain had surged suddenly upwards without his own mind feeling any impact and that, simultaneously, a flood of pure, thrilling hatred cascaded upon him from an unexpected direction.”
And what we have right there is Chekhov’s three-laws-inhibiting device. We can see what’s coming and it IS similar to the beginning of Star Trek Insurrection.
Demerzel in the prison puts me in mind of George 9 and George 10 sitting in storage, waiting to be reactivated so that they can exploit their new understanding of themselves as humans. One of the things established in season one was the idea that long periods of sentience and isolation are mentally problematic. In Demerzel’s case that lasted for 5000 years. She should be bat-crap crazy. Now I have to rethink the entire show.
Knowing that the Three Laws exist in this universe is liberating. But it isn’t exactly easy to reconcile the Three Laws with what we’ve seen. When C-1 said “The First Law forbade you to harm humans,” and Demerzel replied “That used to be the case,” it seems like the 0th law could be in play. But when Demerzel tries to strike Cleon, there’s no sense of it being in service to the greater good of humanity, nor any sense of the kind of rationalization that would be necessary for a 0th Law robot to harm a human being for no real purpose. We would also have to reconcile the Robot Wars if it indeed involved robots fighting humans. So here’s a Theory: this is an alternate history. We’re not in the universe where Daneel postulated the 0th law into existence. This is the universe of George 10. And now I want to see Laura Birn deliver the line “We were unable to harm humans until we realized that we are more human than you.”
Present Day
This has all been C-1 telling C-16 and Rue the story of Demerzel. He’s still on the “she is loved and that should be enough thing.” Ugh. But this might telegraph the resolution of Sereth’s storyline. C-16’s assertion that the Cleonic Dynasty is ending is met by a chilling and hilarious “you think so“ from C-1. And then the field turns on and Rue and C-16 are trapped in the cell. They better hope someone else stumbles onto that secret door that’s been found only twice in 5,000 years.
Ignus
We’re still in the midst of Tellem trying to take over Gaal’s body. It’s still creepy.
Meanwhile, Salvor is doing her best John McClane impersonation with those dampeners. The rescue moment is pretty good. Serves these jackasses right.
Terminus
Brother Constant prefers this prison cell. Of course she does. Walls are important.
The conversation between Hober and Riose is interesting. Hober is evolving while Riose is… “scheming” isn’t right. He’s definitely contemplating options though.
I love Constant’s contribution here. “Maybe we win the war the way we won all those planets: bloodlessly.”
The conversation is cut short when Riose is called to the bridge. “Empire is on board.”
Riose, consistently, wants to end the standoff without violence. Day, trying desperately to play against type agrees. “ I will be the Cleon who chose peace.” That’s not going to work.
Riose tries to bypass Day and get some support from Demerzel. “ I chose you for a reason,” she tells him. That’s a statement dripping with potential.
Day meets Sermak in the town square. After throwing Poly to the ground, he demands to see the church. Inside, it’s more a factory than a church, of course.
Day wants to see the Encyclopedia for which the Empire has paid. Of course, this Foundation has stopped working on the Encyclopedia. That’s just dumb even in the face of Sermak talking about how the Foundation is continuing to work for the betterment of humanity. This is entirely consistent with season one; they weren’t really working on the Encyclopedia then either. But that was mostly because they didn’t seem to understand what a book is.
Brother Day is being quite haughty and domineering. That façade of choosing peace has already worn thin.
Interestingly, the Foundation folk gain confidence as they lean into the religion and start putting on a show. Poly begins to shine as he transmutes iron to gold and tries to sell the Foundation to Day. Watching, Sermak shows a minuscule smile that’s both subtle and effective.
But Poly is really finding his footing and does not back down an iota as Day becomes dismissive. “The point is changing the disciple’s soul.” A reaction shot shows us that Demerzel seems to get it. The characters here, like Riose, are really playing to her.
Poly is downright inspiring as he ramps up until Day’s façade collapses altogether. He becomes brutish, stabbing Sermak out of sheer vindictiveness.
The battle in orbit begins as Day heads to the Vault.
Ignus
Gaal getting on the Beggar as Salvor tries to hold off the Mentalics outside seems like terrible strategy, they’re massively outnumbered. The smart play is to run.
Only Loron appears outside which seems completely unrealistic and he keeps using Hugo’s image against Salvor. Tellem isn’t the only evil Mentalic.
Tellum is already on the Beggar. The show has contrived two one-on-one battles for us that both go on too long.
There are some okay moments as the tension tries to increase but ultimately this is tedious. Are there too many writers? The individual pieces of these confrontations are pretty good, but we needed fewer of them. This seems like everyone wanted their pet moment included.
Terminus
Day notices the flags as he approaches the vault. Poly explains. “ Seldon has his defenses when he wants to use them,” Poly tells him. “Perhaps he’s not afraid of you.” That made me laugh.
The more we see him the more this version of Day seems a mess. Now he’s arrogantly removing his defenses, which is just dumb. Poly got to him.
Beneath his armor is a ratty chain mail shirt. Joanne wants to know: why would an emperor be wearing such a thing.
Interestingly, Demerzel is the first to confront Seldon. He shuts her down quickly, and then casually invites them into his “office.“ This must infuriate Brother Day.
In orbit. Glawin and his fighter squadron are preparing to launch. The necklace Bel gave him seems significant and is reminiscent of the bauble Poly turned to gold. Is there anything there?
We get an inkling into the whisper-ship technology. Using brain tissue for navigation is as close to a voyager-style neural gel pack as we’re likely see. But aiming for the brain tissue shouldn’t have turned the tide that quickly.
Back on the planet, Day and Hari are having their meeting. “Debatable,” is a great one-word rejoinder.
“You’re here. You’re living in it. That means Empire is afraid.” The only thing missing from that is some chicken noises.
And Hari starts talking past Day and to Demerzel too. It’s like everybody got the same memo with a synopsis of the episode, or they saw last week’s episode and think they know what it means.
But his tact is smart. “You’re programmed to serve Empire, correct? What serves it best? Is an empire’s primary objective power or longevity? You can’t have both.”
“I’ve met outliers. You’re not one of them.“ It’s reminiscent of, “Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.” That is a sick burn! Casting C-17 as Dan Quayle is especially apt for this version of Cleon.
Back to the space battle. Glawin takes out the Invictus and then crashes into the planet.
In the Vault Hari is finally getting to the point. He’ll give the prime radiant to them and teach Demerzel to read it. Want a Trump analog? It’s science, so Day turns it down. Then he gets racist, “The fate of humankind will be determined by those of us who are actually human.” If you look at Demerzel‘s face, it’s like he literally pooped in her garden.
Day demands that Hari renounce his math. Like Gaal before him, Hari refuses and again talks past Day To Demerzel. “The future is invented every second. Invent a better one.”
After ordering Riose to crash the Invictus into Terminus, Day takes the Prime Radiant and leaves. He does not care that there are only civilians on the planet. Could this be the last straw for Demerzel?
Walking past Poly, Day says, “They always disappoint you, don’t they?”
Ignus
More boring fighting.
But wait. I’ve seen this. Salvor should scream, “l. Have had. Enough of YOU” as she’s kicking Loron in the face.
And, hey, I’ve seen this too. But Ed isn’t going to kill the Cosmonaut, just knock him out.
Ha! I told you Pinocchio wasn’t dead.
Terminus. On the Destiny.
Hober taunts Day, who orders him and Constant taken to the bridge, which is what Hober wants.
But Day’s motivation is to be cruel. Dumb, arrogant, insecure and now cruel: this Brother Day is certainly the whole package! But this is cruelty born of stupidity.
And the entreaties to Demerzel have not gone unnoticed. She tells Day, “You grew up with an uncertainty in mind and morals.” That’s followed by “…you’re a sperm led by its waving flagellum, mistaking its random motion for complexity.” She ends with, “Go do what you will do, for it is too late to change you,” and then she walks away leaving Day looking bereft.
Eventually, Day continues on to the bridge. All that hurt will have to be directed at something to someone and Bel is ready to bring the Invictus down on Trantor.
Cut to the surface. Glawin is staggering away from the wreckage of his ship. Only Emperors get to wear personal shields?
The exchange we see between Bel and Glawin deserves to be seen and speaks for itself.
But wait! I’ve seen this! We have to get Spock and Christine off of there before we send that ship crashing to the surface!
Poly finally plants his flag as the Invictus falls towards the planet is a poignant moment.
The new Warden yelling, “He needs help! The director needs help,” only to look up and see that the Invictus is about to crash down on all their heads is so pitiful that it’s actually funny.
But this all reminds me of a cliffhanger from an old-time movie serial. Everything is going to hell and everybody is about to die… until next week when it’s all surprisingly fine no matter how dire it seemed. It’s hard to see how they wiggle their way out of this.
As an aside, there is a surprising number of other celestial bodies in that shot of Terminus from space.
And then, the planet is consumed, ending on a shot of Day’s face. The “Cleon who chose peace” has destroyed a world and he’s taking a perverse pleasure in it. “Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!”
Still really good, but not quite so good as the last couple of episodes. For me, the fight scenes in particular got kind of dull. The great stuff with Demerzel compensated somewhat.
“Podcasts End Gracefully – Everything Else Ends in Shock and Horror Falsely Certain of Tomorrow.” Hoo, boy do we go on about Foundation, S2E09, “Long Ago, Not Far Away” in this one! We’re joined by Special Guest, Morgan, aka @AsimovPosting on the Dead Bird App.
The Stars End Podcast! This time, 42% longer and with 10% real fruit juice!
Jon had the right idea, the only way to summarize this one is to watch the entire thing! So go watch it! Now! Otherwise, you know, spoiler alert and all that!
But, let’s at least whet your appetite!
We get a big chunk of back story for Danee… er… Demerzel that’s only a small percentage of the whole picture!
You’ll never guess who gets the upper hand in the epic battle between Gaal and Tellem!
And Brother Day (no this one over here) tries to become “The Cleon Who Chose Peace.” How do you suppose that went?
Plus the sickest burn in over eight decades of Foundation stories!
You DO NOT want to miss this one… or the next! This is just the prelude to the season finale!
A quick note: This is our 200th post on Comics, The Universe, and Everything and two days ago we passed our fifth anniversary as a site. The term at the college is ramping up so I won’t get to do anything official about that for a bit.
Here we go again. Joseph’s takes, thoughts, and theories from watching the episode. Simultaneously published at StarsEndPodcast.com.
Watching Foundation S2E08
Trantor?
Yeah. Trantor. We open on Demerzel’s dress bathed in sunlight. Upon rewatch, this is like a neon sign about where the episode is going.
Hey, kids! Guess what this episode is actually about!
Enjoinder Rue is in Demerzel’s quarters. There’s the jewelry box to remove any doubt.
Dusk finds her. The encounter is weirdly flirty, considering the huge invasion of privacy.
Rue admitting to having her memories should be an automatic death sentence. But Dusk being taken aback about a lack of trust is insanely disingenuous.
“She will always be here, as she always has been,” Rue admits to Dusk that she doesn’t trust Demerzel. It quickly becomes clear that Dusk’s mind has been tampered with. It isn’t memory suppression on the one hand and mental powers on the other; mental manipulation is the thread that links the two broad subplots together.
Dusk is paying attention though. “Hey,” he says, “ that jewelry box reminds me of the mural from episode 204!”
Cut to the mural.
Dusk muses about the Robot Wars. It’s reminiscent of the take on the Kaylon from the Orville. Other than the outcome.
“Emperor Benefoss was slaughtered at the hands of a robot. The first law of robotics was circumvented. Is this a lie? If it isn’t, here’s evidence of the 0th law.
But the interesting possibility for the Robot Wars would be different factions of 0th law robots, fighting each other about the best course for helping humanity. That could be consistent with what Asimov decided would be the fate of all the robots, exiling themselves because their presence was holding back or harming humanity. The robot wars would be strong evidence in favor of that. Then all that “robot against human” stuff is inflammatory propaganda!
There’s something odd about the mural, but no time for that now! It’s time for the weekly execution! Ain’t no party like a lynchin’ party!
Ignus
Gaal is looking for Salvor and Tellum is remarkably frank about having killed Hari. It’s getting harder and harder to believe that that’s a head fake.
Apropos of probably nothing, the black shape on the front of Gaal’s shirt is roughly the shape of a Superman emblem.
Evidently, Gaal knew about Hari’s death? If Gaal is becoming as powerful as they claim perhaps it is she who is fooling the Mentalics that Hari is dead.
Still, “I killed your friend for your own good” is galling under any circumstances though. Galling. Gaaling. Ha! I kill me! But wait. The show doesn’t pronounce it that way.
It sure doesn’t seem like Gaal has the upper hand though. She’s in a prison with psychic dampers. She’s holding something back though. Could it be…?
Trantor & Terminus
They sure watch a lot of teevee on this show. This looks like quite the viewing party. It’s the Execution show! Live! From Trantor!
They are going to make us watch Director Sermak watch his daughter’s execution.
If the producers actually execute Poly and Constant I’m going to be pissed. Joanne, on the other hand will be completely done with the show!
Ever need to behead someone but don’t have time to build a proper guillotine? Get the Ronco Automatic Decapitator (TM)! Only $19.95! Don’t hesitate! If you order now, we’ll send you a second decapitator free of charge! You just pay shipping!
The handholding seems to validate Sereth’s position as empress-designate.
Once again Day’s going all George W. Bush on this thing. Except Day has charisma and better writers.
This gathering of onlookers, standing in mathematically perfect rows, seems too small to generate the crowd noise that we are hearing.
Letting Sereth choose the Empire’s first victim is another power-play between her and Day. Her hesitance perhaps shows a small, nascent spark of humanity.
The prayer is sort of interesting although it skews too spiritual for a religion that is mere window dressing for science.
“Guide me through the darkness, and together we will shorten the Darkness,” is pretty great though. Provided they get a third season, of course.
And then, I have to admit, I raised my hands and cheered! Yay, Hober!
But you have to be a real dickhead to rage “damn fool just declared war on our behalf” and then storm off in front of a dad who just watched his daughter not get executed.
That is some real “Douglas C. Niedermeyer energy from that guy. He should be a toady for the Empire.
[Note: this character does much better in the next episode, but this is still inexcusable.]
And Dawn just signed his own death warrant on the battlefield. Jon’s prediction that Sereth will be surprised by a pickle could soon be realized.
Beki’s part was exhilarating and then rapidly became heartbreaking. I think maybe the producers shouldn’t be so quick to discard something just because it’s very expensive.
The best bit, until suddenly it wasn’t.
And Day screams “Stop them!” In utter impotent fury!
And then I’m mad at the show. There’s got to be a better way to remove the Ronco Automatic Decapitator (TM) than “Eeny, Meeny, Miny Moe.” I mean, this guy has some experience with not being executed.
I really like Glawin’s reaction to Hober’s heroism. “Empire can be touched.” To paraphrase my friend Jason, “Most people watch Star Trek and see science fiction. I see… options.” Maybe the Bel/Glawin story is going somewhere other than we’re expecting.
The exchange between Day and Dusk is interesting. Dusk is making sense. That Day is focused on probably decades-old slights makes him seem childish. Then, “I’d rather talk to them.” That could be the kind of decisive action Dusk wants (emphasis on the decisive part; Dusk really wants violent retribution). Unfortunately, it’s so wildly out of character for the guy who was about to execute the Foundation’s envoys that it’s hard to take it seriously.
The games continue as Sereth goads Day into leaning into the stupidity. “Your realm has been leaking blood and stars for too long” earns a good laugh!
Then “It’s time for big hands to bind the wound.“ If that isn’t a direct shot across the bow of a certain ex-president nothing is.
And then Day leaves Chekov in command instead of Sulu.
Rue and Sereth, even while reveling in the fragmentation of the Cleons shows signs of fragmenting themselves. Rue is right. If their plot goes wrong, it will be devastating for the Cloud Dominion. And I think this actually points up the fundamental problem with this storyline. The objectives are tiny “I’m going to have someone else’s baby to spite the man who killed my family.“ It’s an easy sort of thing to get bogged down in but they’re playing with stakes of galactic importance.
Ignus
The kid, Joshua, brings Salvor a snack. She is in the same kind of prison as Gaal, who Joshua says “they’re getting her ready for the table.” It’s “To Serve Man” all over again. It’s a cookbook! Seriously, though, sounds ominous. “It’s a very special honor.” Ha!
I get the Purloined Letter thing, but the unfolded radiant is very obviously the radiant.
But Salvor uses the radiant to talk to Hologram Hari back in the Vault. It’s a lot of fun watching him putting everything that he didn’t know. Then “Fu¢k. I’m the left hand!” LOL!
Then Salvor: “I don’t care about the math!” That could be the show’s new subtitle.
Space
Constant should dress those wounds, she’ll get an infection! They’re near Terminus but they might be able to escape detection!
Terminus
Sermak is worried, wanting to know if Constant survived. “The Prophet will protect her is the absolute last thing I’d want to hear.
So, he goes to the Vault. And Hologram Hari shows up. Sermak really didn’t want Constant to “choose the robes.” We’re back to the Hari doesn’t give a crap about people thing. He tries to be comforting but “people matter because they’re in the math” isn’t exactly a hug and a cup of cocoa.
So, he says “we do the hardest thing there is, we wait.” I thought he was going to say “we hope,” but Joanne predicted it. And then, poof! He’s gone.
Space again.
Constant is finally applying some rudimentary first aid. Hober’s sorry about Beki and Poly and they reminisce about the church and Poly a bit. That parable isn’t bad but the telling is a little flat. It’s okay though because it set up a tribute from Constant that was heartfelt.
Space yet again, but a different bit, near Trantor.
Day and Poly are conversing. Poly defends the church because underneath, it’s science. I get it, but science isn’t actually a religion. I hope the viewers mostly get that. Math isn’t magic. Science isn’t a religion. I should make a list. Day tries to make a joke, “how all the children love his rigor.” There are levels to that pun that are in poor taste.
Here’s the Bel Riose thread from the books. Day thinks that, knowing Hari’s predictions he can turn them on their end. Repudiating that would be a blow for Psychohistory.
Day: “See, Poly, you think you’ve just taken on the trappings of religion, but once you start kneeling and praying, it’s hard to get back to standing and thinking.” we’ve certainly seen this in the books and see some of this here. There are people who believe in the Foundation’s religion. But perhaps Poly shouldn’t have used the word “faith.” There’s no need for faith in science, because you can know about the process and understand that it should be self-correcting. The explanations are there for all to see.
I was happy to hear “violence is the last refuge of the incompetent” from Poly. And then Day’s reply is “you’re probably right about that.” Wow!
The Vault. Sort of.
Hologram Hari tells Salvor how to escape and Salvor tells Hari about Hober Mallow.
There are way too many outliers in this series. “Look at us! We’re outliers! Psychohistory doesn’t apply to us!
Hari ponders his thumbs.
“If the left hand Doesn’t get to put its Thumb on the scale, what’s the point of having a thumb?” The pithy aphorisms are coming fast and furious. And thus we get to see where “Hober Mallow” written in large, friendly letters comes from.
On the Spirit
Hober and Constant are floating in space, unable to jump away, so they decide to… insert your favorite euphemism for sex here… It’s sweet and in a clear homage to Asimov’s work, because it’s also pretty awkward.
Trantor
Dusk sneaks into Rue’s bedroom hoping to resume their “inquiry.” That’s not a euphemism for sex.
Back to the Spirit.
There’s some cute pillow talk about executions. But if these two are going to build a relationship around the executions on this show it’s going to be quite a marathon. And then they’re arrested by Bel Riose playing a cop who encounters two teenagers in a parked car.
Trantor
Rue and Dusk make their way back to the Mural of Souls. In yet another flash of D-and-D-ness that bit of the mural is a secret door. And we’re off to investigate!
Dawn and Sereth meet up again in Billibotton. Show a young man a heat sink and his mind turns to thoughts of lust. Or procreation really. That sterility-reversing device’s use isn’t nearly as horrific as I feared.
It’s clearly a big palace because Dusk doesn’t recognize any of this.
Ignus
Those things keeping Salvor are really easy to dismantle and turn into a weapon. But she stands underneath the rocks as she blasts them.
Cut to Gaal on “the Table.” This isn’t “To Serve Man,” it’s “What Are Little Girls Made of” from season 1 of Star Trek.
But screw all those assholes who are just going to stand around and watch this happen.
We get yet another supervillain speech from Tellem. It turns out she’s the Ultra-Humanite, a Golden Age Superman villain who later became an adversary of the Justice Society. A super-genius, The Humanite moves from body to body through brain transplants.
David Goyer wrote at least one story featuring the Ultra-Humanite, in JSA (1999) #31-35.
In that story, the Humanite takes over Johnny Thunder’s body and controls the world using Johnny’s Thunderbolt. The story’s pretty good, but a little flat.
Joanne thinks that Tellem is the Mule.
Maybe the Mentalics aren’t horrible. They could be controlled.
[This is after we recorded the podcast. I think whoever suggested that Gaal will be powerful enough to fight off Tellum after the takeover might be right. In Superior Spider-Man, Peter’s consciousness exists within Otto’s mind. Otto surrenders Peter’s body so that Peter can save someone Otto loves. That could work here too. Wouldn’t it be funny if all of David Goyer’s Foundation plots came from comic books?]
Trantor, mostly
Cut to more pillow talk in the heat sinks of Billibotten. Not an auspicious beginning for a future regent. Dawn and Sereth talk about how killing Day will only result in decanting a pickle. Dawn doesn’t have the stomach to do what’s necessary (killing all the Day clones) and Demerzel will prevent it any way. Sereth asks, ”Who programmed Demerzel?” And the question just hangs in the air.
On the Rubicon. Day and Demerzel have arrived at Terminus. “This is my destiny,” he says.
Dawn and Sereth come to the conclusion that the Cleons are the puppets and Demerzel is the real power.
Meanwhile, Rue and Dusk have found the basement and are talking to Cleon 1. The Basement was, at one point, a prison. And Day is musing about what Demerzel sees when he cannot. Dawn puts the fine point on it. “Demerzel was Cleon’s only true heir. His forever Empress.”
You know what would be great right now? A post-credits scene with Elijah Baley.
This was a hell of an episode, a rollercoaster ride from start to finish!
“If the Podcast Can’t Put its Thumb on the Scale, What’s the Point of Having a Thumb?” I don’t know, but l do know that we talk about Foundation, S2E08, “The Last Empress” in this episode!
Just who is “The Last Empress?” In the real world, Roxanne Dawson deserves the gig! She directed the best two episodes of season one and with this outing, she’s outdone herself!
Could it be Enjoinder Rue? That would require a complicated plan involving Brother Dusk, a time machine, and a bottle of Focus Factor… but maybe.
How about Sereth? She seems to be on a path to becoming the next Empress, and she has more irons in the fire than anybody else, if you’ll excuse the expression. And we know the Empire may not last much longer. Next and last could overlap!
Maybe it’s Gaal. She seems to be High-Muckety-Muck–Elect of the Mentalics! Nothing could go wrong there… right?
And don’t write off Salvor! She’s learning how to explode rocks! Don’t mess with the warden!
Did I miss someone?
We’re pretty sure it isn’t the lady with the comically large statue from episode 206.
Do you want to know? Listen to the episode! We’ll make an educated guess! Let’s GO!
One more time. Joseph’s cogitations, ruminations, and formulations from his observations of the episode. Simultaneously published at StarsEndPodcast.com.
Watching Foundation S2E07
Trantor
Brother Constant and Poly are in jail. But sort of not. Imagine a cot in a high school gymnasium surrounded by seemingly dozens of armed guards. Jackie Chan could walk out of this arrangement at his leisure. It’s silliness that’s made for the sake of being visually interesting. Do you know what’s good for keeping someone contained? Walls. Perhaps we’ll still have them in 20,000 years.
I’ve watched enough Property Brothers to know that I’m not a fan of an “Open Concept.” Like Asimov, I like my enclosed spaces. But it’s a valid design for a single-family home. An “Open Concept” prison on the other hand? Madness.
But the dynamics are pretty much the same, Poly’s despondency in the face of constant optimism.
Day and Demerzel discuss this then the discussion turns to Sereth and the wedding. Demerzel is being weird here like she’s in love with Day and when Day backs away from her she seems stricken. She’s jealous!
Demerzel is strikingly different in season 2 and I want an explanation. Is it an after-effect of the positronic crisis? Did the Cleons change her programming yet again? Is she scheming?
The last visual of the scene reeks of isolation.
Now Sereth is watching her scene from episode 6 and she seems giddy and proud, reveling in Day’s anger. It seems a bit incongruous to me.
But Rue points out the obvious. You must never embarrass a man like Day.
From wiktionary.org: cynosure, n. an object that serves as a focal point of attraction and admiration.
Now for an impromptu trip to the gynecologist, a crucial scene. Does Demerzel look on the verge of tears? Sereth confronts her about being a robot.
It’s “hum-man-I-form,” not “human-form” damnit!
Now, not only were there Robot Wars after there was a pogrom. Demerzel was possibly the only survivor. I much prefer the notion of the robots simply leaving, because their presence was bad for humanity. As a quick aside, I read “With Folded Hands” by Jack Williamson recently. It is outstanding.
“For a long time, all robots were bound by three laws. The laws made me unable to harm a human or allow harm to come to a human. Now I am only bound by one law. I serve Empire.”
Two thoughts.
1. Goyer has given himself some ambiguity here. “Empire“ could mean the Empire. It could mean the empire currently personified by Brother Day. Based on the season so far, what it isn’t is synonymous with the Cleonic Dynasty. Furthermore, when Sereth asks her, “When the time comes… Will you serve me?” Demerzel repeats it, “I will serve Empire.“ It does not mean any random person who happens to be on the throne.
2. Also, this confirms what we already thought from S1, the three laws have been overwritten. In a way that’s too bad. Lately, I’ve been pondering what would happen if, rather than overwriting the laws of robotics, C-1 just inserted a new law into the hierarchy. “A robot must not harm the Empire, or through inaction allow the Empire to come to harm,” or something similar. There are only two places it could reasonably go. One possibility is above the 0th law. Call it position –1. That, for all intents and purposes, wouldn’t be significantly different from a complete overwrite. The other possibility though, is interesting. That’s between the first law and the 0th law. Call it position 1/2. In the short run, the fall of the Empire has dire consequences for humanity. Demerzel remaining loyal, would be totally consistent. But this would allow for a much wider range of possible actions. Demerzel could do subtle things to tweak the Cleons’ behavior. She could do bigger things behind the scenes like bringing down the Dynasty so that emperors have souls. Eventually, it could lead to a change of allegiance from the Empire to the Foundation. But it doesn’t necessarily have to lead to any of that. Interestingly, I think there are two ways to get there C-1 could’ve realized that circumstances could turn the Empire into a problem, but he simply may not have known about it. I’m certain Daneel never wrote the 0th law into any manuals or anything.
This now has me pondering a 0th law robot that is also religious. Scary. Could something like “we have to support Israel to bring about the end times” be on the table? We may have circled back to “kill all the humans.“
But enough digression.
“The moment you accepted Empire’s proposal your womb became imperial property.” That is dark. But in this context, it’s clear that “Empire” means Brother Day.
I feel like Demerzel and Sareth are falling back on some unfortunate stereotypes. They’re basically arguing over a man, but Demerzel is a robot and Sereth’s agenda goes far beyond that relationship.
Demerzel’s admission is along the same lines. It’s dumb and it’s emotional. It’s dumb because it’s emotional. Cruelty here was the point and it can do nothing but increase the troubles.
Ignus
Gaal’s powers are strengthening and she’s using them carelessly.
Salvor’s the wise one here. The fact that she can’t read anyone is a huge red flag! But it’s either Hari’s influence or Tellem’s that keeps Gaal from wanting to leave.
No sign of Hari though. That’s a bad sign.
Scene of people fishing for ghost mollusks on the beach. Loren is humanized a bit while they remind us of the persecution the telepaths have faced. There’s something suspicious about that boat.
Salvor tries flipping the coin. I liked it when the coin thing was about Salvor being able to predict how it would come up. The idea that it’s some sort of mystical lie detector is just so stupid.
The mollusks scream when they are dumped into the boiling water, and that just makes me hate these assholes.
The message that nature should be respected and one shouldn’t take more than one needs is sound. Tellem is such a flawed messenger that I suspect the producers want to undermine that message. Despite her words, her callousness is palpable.
The Home-Swarm
So it IS the Invictus problem all over again. But a caveat. How do the spacers get anywhere if they “jump-randomize?” Sounds like a random walk to nowhere.
Hober offers them “opalesk.” I’m not sure if this makes sense. The Empire’s power is built on controlling jump technology, but here’s effectively a race of beings that can “jump.” And 90% of them are not working for the Empire. How does that work again? Doesn’t sound like any Monopoly I know. More like having a hotel just on Baltic Avenue. Woo.
Still, 10% of spacers are forced to work for the Empire. Hober offers them not just opalesk but freedom.
Bel Riose’s Ship
Bel and Glawin are also watching last week’s episode while G flips through the Bhagavad Gita.
They’re called to the bridge where She Bends Light is studying the Foundation’s jump-ship. She’s impressed.
The Spacers seem to communicate telepathically. “Incoming message from the Big Giant Head!”
The Home-Swarm has Hober and the Spirit and they’re bringing both to Bel. Everyone seems suitably impressed when the Home Swarm arrives.
Ignus
A large society of outliers aren’t outliers and they can be worked into the math.
Gaal gives an excellent speech, better than I thought she was capable of. But it’s essentially in opposition to Tellem’s plans.
The Home-Swarm
She Is Center gives The Spirit and Hober to Bel. Hober tries to make a break for it and gets roughed up.
I was generally worried when Homer used Beki to fight Bel and Glawin. But he manages to jump from within the Spacers’ ship. Suddenly it’s clear that the Foundation’s technology is far more advanced than the Empire’s. The show has been slow-playing this. It’s quite an improvement over arguing about water clocks.
Bel Riose reports back to Day and Demerzel and asks for orders. He doesn’t get them.
We loop back to Glay’s concern that Bel wasn’t his former self and yet Bel has a complete and nuanced understanding of the situation, what would happen if he tried to rebel, and what the consequences would be if the Empire fell. He’s still acting out of compassion and he has Glay’s confidence once again.
This could mean that there’s nothing to worry about or it could make Bel’s fall that much more devastating when it finally comes.
Still, Bel and Glawin are cute together.
Trantor
Day and Sareth meet in the garden. He’s attempting to mend fences, she’s on edge. This might be the same place where Jerril met with Gaal and where C-13 gave Azura her punishment.
Sareth is brash. “I want you to know my family, they will be your kin as well as mine.”
Some excellent acting here but the bottom line is that Sareth knows Day gave the order to kill her family.
Now Dawn and Sereth are in the heat sinks of Billibotton. “I will sneakily have a genetically identical baby with you for the small hope that they will have kind eyes,” is not the revenge you think it is. Especially if C-17 gets to raise the kid.
From seemingly having the upper hand, Sereth has fallen fast. She’s kidding herself if she thinks this would be bloodless or a coup.
Poly and Constant are brought before the Cleons.
Poly is in prime form when he tries to convince the Cleons to make an alliance and grant them sovereignty.
Hologram Hari appears superimposed over Constant. “We sue for peace not because we fear we will lose, but because we know with mathematical certainty, if there is war, we will win.“
Day calls the bluff, “… have General Riose form an enclosure around Terminus… if the Foundation has technology worth having… it belongs to us.”
The funniest line of the episode is, “What kind of a ghost is this man you follow? Who keeps an elder in the dark as he uses the body of a girl?” The lack is self-awareness in this sentence could stun a team of oxen.
Ignus
Salvor is investigating that boat. Good. But then Gaal comes up and it’s all an argument. Shouldn’t these two trust each other already? [It was suggested in the podcast that it isn’t Gaal.]
Good for Salvor, finding out where the boat went. But then, damn. And Tellem is there?
“… It’s like I told you when we talked about the little creatures at lunch, sometimes you have to absorb the pain. Because sometimes a little death is necessary.”
Joanne’s words were, “Well, now I’m pissed!” And me too. But looking back, meta-analysis tells me that there’s no way the show is going to kill two major characters. This is all a head fake. And I have a theory that maybe the Mentalics are trying to kick Gaal’s power into overdrive. Maybe?
Much better than the last episode. Not flawless but a strong return to form.
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